Biohacking for Your Practice

All right. Hello, everyone. This is Dr. Stephanie Brown, and I'm here with Danielle.

Danielle, say hello.

Hi, everyone.

We are here with the ChiroCast podcast. And today's episode is going to focus all around biohacking. What is biohacking?

So I've actually been asking people in my life, do they know what biohacking is? What do they think it is? And a lot of people actually, they have no idea what I'm talking about.

And when I get into it with them, I find out that they actually do know what I'm talking about. They just didn't really call it biohacking.

Oh, yeah. I didn't realize what we all do on the daily is it had a word until this year.

Yeah, exactly. So we thought it would be neat maybe to run through just some of those things that could be considered biohacking. A lot of us, especially if you are a chiropractor, might already do these things.

So I feel like chiropractors are often on the forefront of health trends, maybe some health fads, you know, and some of those fads don't always have staying power. But as everybody knows, sometimes they do. And so I thought it would be neat to run through some of these just because I do feel like it's very much kind of a buzzword lately.

And there could be some practical applications for this. So personally, I know I kind of always I don't struggle sometimes, but, you know, you just get sucked into talking about like the weather with patients and definitely something that's not super productive in your office. So maybe some of these topics could just be something that you add to your table talk.

So just to help guide conversations towards health and wellness when patients are in your office could also be content for maybe if you have an internal newsletter and you know, maybe on the far end of how this could impact your practice is if you actually have some of these or implement some of them in your office.

You mean adding them like a service?

Yeah, maybe. There are definitely offices that do offer these things in their office. Maybe it's just something you as a chiropractor want to put into your life to cope with or manage stress or just something to do for your own health.

But it's cool if you... I think it's neat when you can incorporate these things into your daily routine with your patients and give it to them as an option as well. I'm going to make you take a stab at defining biohacking.

Who, me?

Yeah.

Oh, okay. So biohacking, we're going to break it down. Bio being biology, hacking, I think computer programming, like hacking the system.

So hacking our biology, formal definition, no clue. But what resonates is incorporating things that aren't common into your daily routine to improve your well-being, your mental health, whether it's been triple something, studied. What is it called?

Triple blind, whatever placebo study, double blind.

Double blind. I would love to see a triple blind study. We're going to have to invent that.

Let's do it.

There we go.

That's what I think.

Like, has it been studied? We don't know. Is it backed by the FDA?

Probably not. Majority, most of them probably are not. But we do it anyway because the risk is worth the reward.

Or also important with risk is investment, right? Like, how much is this thing costing you? The other thing that I think is super important, and I'm glad you brought that up, is research.

So I know I'm not the only one who thinks this, but research is great because we need somewhere to start, whether it's with a pharmaceutical, whether it's with a chiropractic adjustment, like whatever it might be. We need somewhere to start to determine if something is safe and effective, right? The fact of the matter though is that we all are unique beings.

We're all humans, but our biochemistry internally is all gonna vary or be at least a little bit different from person to person. I get into this conversation with patients a lot when it comes to diet. So I'll have some patients that respond really well to certain diets.

Right now I have a lot of people, and I don't coach them on these things, but they've just discovered them themselves. This should be on our list today. Intermittent fasting.

I have one patient who has started doing this, maybe it was about two years ago, and I mean tremendous difference in her amount of energy, her body composition, her weight changed, of course. Just she did phenomenal with it. She loves how she feels and she maintains.

It's been two years and she does this regularly. I have other people who have tried intermittent fasting and they absolutely hate it, feel like garbage and they don't want to do it. There's something about that first patient's body that responds really well to that stimulation or lack thereof of intermittent fasting, and so it's good for her, but not everything is one size fits all and back to what you said, risk and what does that risk look like or the investment.

If it's a low risk or low investment, why not try and see how your body responds to it?

Yeah, and I'm glad you mentioned that everybody's different. It's funny, I actually took one of those, I don't want to say gimmick, but it's one of those tests as you're scrolling in the middle of the night, and it was intermittent fasting. It was like, did you know that your body is going to function differently?

There's different time intervals with that, and some bodies and metabolisms work better with longer fasting periods, and so I was reading into that, and then it even, I went down a rabbit hole with blood types can determine the types of fasting and the types of food that work better for your body, and I thought it was very interesting, but I think it all relates to biohacking because your PCM and chiropractor probably aren't going to go into that molecular level with you when you're talking about different healthy aspects, ways of life. And then another fast I came across was water fasting, where folks are fasting like five days, I've seen 30 days with just water, and I found that to be so fascinating. But it's crazy because very many of them don't do it with like doctor feedback, like they're not doing it with any support, they're kind of just going at it on their own.

So I think it is important to review all of these things with your providers before you jump into them.

Yeah, totally. So and as providers, I think it's important to make sure that you at least kind of know what you're talking about. I know a chiropractor who used to absolutely hate yoga, hated it, hated yoga, told everybody that it made them too stretchy, too bendy, the body needs stability, they're going to force you to stretch too much, that's not good for you.

And I think he meant that not good for you, like you, like you person individually, but they said the same thing to everybody basically. But if you think about it, everyone in his office was like there because they had a problem in most cases. And then I still don't remember how this happened, but he started going to yoga and he freaking loved it.

It was the funniest thing ever. I hope he watches this. I'm going to send it to him.

So then he started going to yoga and he was like, oh, maybe it's not forcing you to be the stretchiest person ever. There could be other benefits to this besides just the stretching. It's like the movement in general and the strength and stability it forces you to work on when you're getting into these poses.

And like anything else, if he doesn't want to be super stretchy, then he just doesn't need to force himself like in those particular poses, right? Yeah.

Don't push the limit.

Yeah. So he's telling people not to do yoga when he literally has never done it before and had no idea what he was talking about. I mean, you know, in a way to summarize it.

Obviously, an intelligent person that knows a lot about the human body and anatomy and all the other things, but had no experience with yoga and was telling people how bad it was. And I think that's dangerous because there's things that people just like and they're going to do anyways. Slightly unrelated, but probably the most common thing I find that people are going to do whether we want them to or not is running.

Like if somebody was looking for an exercise to add into their lifestyle, running would not be the one I tell them they should suddenly pick up as an adult. I would probably suggest almost anything else. But people who run, they freaking love it.

To work with them, to help them find a way to be able to keep running, it depends on their situation and what's going on. But I just think it gets dicey when you're telling people like, no, absolutely don't ever do that, especially when you have no direct experience with it. So to what you said, try to know what you're talking about or tell that patient like, gee, I don't know, let me go learn about it in a more professional way.

Then maybe give them some advice if they're asking for it, once you've done your research. That's one thing I have found people respond to way better, even though we're doctors and they see us in a position of authority and society has bestowed that responsibility on us via our education and license. You still need that person to listen to you and do what you want effectively.

Assuming it's in their best interest. Even though you're there doctor, they are your patient, if you ask permission to give them advice, I find that they're so much more open to actually they stop and they listen, and they're more likely to follow through and pay attention and do what you've suggested. So back to the biohacking, that was a rabbit hole anyways.

Back to the biohacking. So yeah, I actually really like your definition. So I had said that it was maximizing natural interventions in a way that has a positive impact on your body.

So obviously, we're all trying to maintain health or probably get better health. And that's what I see as biohacking.

It sounds more Webster dictionary, very professional. Like you could tell you're a doctor.

I try sometimes. Okay, good. So this is obviously a chiropractic podcast.

And I just want to address in the beginning that the items on our list, some people are going to argue that those items are not chiropractic. And I guess depending on who you talk to, that would be true. Chiropractic in the purest definition is adjusting someone.

We'll just leave it at that. And I just think though that that might be true for some people in their offices. Again, most people in your office and even most of us as providers are looking, we're interested in health, we want to be healthier.

And I don't think there's anything wrong with suggesting that someone eat more fruits and vegetables. In fact, I think that we should do that when the situation warrants. And so in the same vein, you know, being educated on some of these other items that might help somebody improve or regain health, I don't think there's anything wrong with that for you to have that conversation with them.

And in some cases, maybe even have an opportunity for them to take advantage of that in your practice. So yes, no one freak out. We're not saying you shouldn't do chiropractic or you should only do these things.

You know, these are just things that might augment what you're doing. They could just, they're complementary recommendations, if you will. And certainly patients can choose to do them or not.

Also, maybe small elephant in the room. They could also be revenue streams. I mean, I know the focus is health and well-being and supplementing your adjustments.

But as providers, I think you have to think about business mechanisms as well. It could, you know, also change the patient's life. It's supplementing their care, but it's also bringing an additional stream of revenue in some cases.

Yeah. So on that note, if you were to add any of these items to your practice, you absolutely want to check with your insurance. So check with your malpractice insurance, check with your business liability policy, maybe check with your landlord.

They may have rules about what you can do and all that good stuff. Check your lease, whatever. But definitely your malpractice in your business insurance.

If you are providing another service in your office, you'd want to declare that. If you ever did have an incident, you would not want them to say, oh, well, you don't have coverage for that because you never told us that you had these decompression boots in your office. That would be bad.

So make sure you tell all interested parties what you're going to be doing in your office if you do decide to add something new.

Like goat yoga, bringing in some livestock to the office.

Man, if goats get too big, forget about it. My neighbor has had goats over the years, and they're so cute and little when they come home, and then they grow up.

They're huge and stinky.

Yeah. They mowed my lawn a couple of times, but that was one they were bigger. I wish they were back.

Actually, my lawn guy closed his business earlier this year, and I had to mow myself, so I wish I had some goats. Anyways, I could have had yoga in my backyard at the same time. Two birds, one stone.

No, we're not going to do that. Okay. Also, this is not an endorsement, so we're not telling you, you should have these things in your practice or buy this particular brand.

These are just comments, ideas, and giving you guys stuff to think about for either your own health or your patient's health. And like I said before, table talk, content for newsletters or social media, just ways to engage people in conversation, keep them health conscious, and like Danielle mentioned, maybe another revenue stream in your office.

Yeah, bringing patients in that maybe there's in their mind, I know like older generations, especially in my family, they still to this day look at chiropractic as pseudoscience. You'd only go if you're in a car accident, right? But having other modes of health care within your office could bring those patients in and then they're learning as they go and then you've got a new patient for life.

Sure, absolutely. All right, do you want to hit the list?

Yeah, let's do it.

These are not in any particular order, by the way, just the order we came up with them in. Number one is infrared sauna. I'm kind of a sauna expert because I have one.

But Danielle, I am not familiar with your experience with infrared saunas, so if you were a patient in my office, I might say, hey, have you ever heard of an infrared sauna? And I'm just curious how you would answer. I feel like I'm putting you on the spot a lot, but how would you answer that?

Perfect if you don't have something like rehearsed to say, because this patient wouldn't.

Yeah, and the good news is I've never encountered an infrared sauna. So well, unless it's okay. No, I haven't.

So I've experienced the red light therapy where it's truly, it's just red light surrounding you. But pairing that with a sauna, like I've done a sauna on its own. I've done red light on its own, but bringing them together.

I think it would be just, I mean, a huge impact of health benefit as you're sweating out toxins. And then their infrared light therapy is helping, I guess, dermis, epidermis. I don't know, because I have no idea.

I'm not a doctor. But I would be curious as to what the health benefits could be, or even if there aren't health benefits, trying it.

Yeah, exactly. So, all right, you did say one thing though that caught my attention. You said something about how you have been in a sauna before.

So, was that steam sauna or like a steam room at the gym or something like that? Or was it like a dry sauna?

Is the dry sauna with the rocks?

Was there any steam involved on the rocks? You might not have put any water on them, so then there would be no steam.

No, I don't recall any steam. It was just in the corner. There were hot rocks, and you just sit in there, you sweat.

I don't recall any steam.

Okay, was it a wooden box?

Yes. Yep.

Okay. I don't know. It's probably, it depends on the sauna.

Okay, so now I'm going to have to go back to the drawing board and look this up. All right, so we'll just, let's go back. We're going to go way back in history to Finland and ancient times or what have you.

So the original saunas were fire powered, we'll call it, but they heated up water and created steam. So there was heat, obviously from the fire, but also that moisture that was in the air. So that's how original, we'll call them traditional saunas.

So that's a traditional sauna. Finland really is like the owner of this. They have embraced that type of, we'll call it technology, very much so.

Where I think it's something like they have more saunas than they have people in the country or something like that. I don't know, some crazy statistic like that. So most people, many people have them at their homes.

And so it's a big part of their culture and their approach to just health and wellness. So that is a traditional sauna though, that has, it's steam. And obviously they don't necessarily have a giant fire in the middle of them anymore.

They may be electric heating element or something like that. But they are generally steam powered, we'll call it saunas. So that's a traditional sauna.

A traditional sauna is going to operate at a higher temperature. Also, the moisture in the air, the humidity from the steam, is going to make it harder for your body to cool itself. So it's also going to feel hotter in most cases.

If you were to compare them side by side, it's going to feel hotter as well. Those traditional saunas, therefore, though, they heat the body via convection. There will be a test at the end of this podcast.

So convection is like, it's heating up the air, which then has to heat up you. So that is how a traditional sauna works, and therefore, it does have to operate at a higher temperature because of the way it's going to heat you up, and that's just how it works. So that's kind of how saunas started.

And honestly, I would have to go back and see who came up with this infrared thing. But anyways, infrared sauna... Oh, and to back up, though, sometimes they will have, like, the heater in the corner will have, like, rocks on it, and then you pour the water on the rocks, and that's what creates the steam.

So that's why I was asking if there was steam involved or not. It could be you were in a traditional sauna, but no one put water on the rocks.

I don't know what happened. Just hope for the best.

Yeah, I don't know what's going on there. Okay, cool. So that's traditional.

So an infrared sauna, though, is different in the sense that it has, usually it's a big box of wood that you walk into. It could be a round shaped barrel, but I think they're usually square, actually. It could also be a room.

So there is a popular, I think it's a fitness chain that actually has exercise in these big rooms where there's infrared heaters all the way around. So it's warming up the room and you while you exercise. So that would just be a big room.

They could make them that big. But I think what most of us would picture is just basically a decently sized big wooden box, because obviously you can get inside of it. But then on the walls, sometimes in the floor, maybe the ceiling, but I haven't seen one with the ceiling.

There'll be special heaters in it that emit infrared rays. So this one heats you differently because it's not necessarily... I mean, the air will warm up because it's exposed to the heat, but the rays themselves are reaching the body and that is what heats up the body.

So you will get heated up, so to speak. I'm making air quotes. I mean, you do get heated up, but you're gonna get heated up because of the action of that electromagnetic energy, not because of the temperature of the air in and of itself.

I have done this before. I have a thermometer in my sauna and I'll tell you that it might say 90, but I'm like sweating my butt off as if it's way more than 90. But that's because my body was heated up by the rays.

So anyways, infrared rays, fabulous. So like what about it? So the infrared rays essentially are penetrating the skin and then they have positive effect on the body.

One question patients always ask me is like, well, what's the difference between that and an X-ray? Because as soon as you say electromagnetic radiation, that's what it is, people get nervous. I don't have my fun little like picture to share on the video here, but picture at spectrum, like one end left to right.

On the far end also we'll have a rainbow on that spectrum. On the far end is where purple is. If you go beyond purple, that's where ultraviolet is, which most people would argue might not be the greatest, at least not extended exposure on purpose all the time.

Beyond that are going to be gamma rays and what most of us would think of like X-rays and other like dangerous types of radiation. So that's after purple on that electromagnetic spectrum. Infrared rays, hence the fact they have the word red in them, if you go way to the other side where red is and then it's after red.

So, infrared rays are after red on the spectrum and completely separate far opposite side from like the bad type of radiation. So there are good types of radiation. The sun is giving off radiation.

I mean, radiation is just like another word for like light basically. The question is, what is the wavelength and is it good for the human body? So, obviously, we know there's applications where it's not.

Like I just said, with x-rays, too much x-ray bad and so on. But on that far end, the wavelength is different and they've actually found that there are positive health benefits to exposing, being exposed to those infrared rays. So, yes.

Does that generate any questions in your mind about why would I want to do an infrared sauna or what the deal is with it?

Just hearing about the differences. The first thing I thought of was infrared sauna is going to be easier to breathe in because there's humidity. With those steam saunas, I imagine the higher the humidity, you're not going to be in there much long.

You can't be in there long. It's going to be very hard to breathe on top of being hot. So, infrared sauna, there's not, I mean, is there humidity or is it no humidity?

So, I think right away, I'm going to go for infrared for that added benefit of you're getting infrared waves and no humidity. So, I'm going to be able to stay in there longer.

Yeah, absolutely. That's a very good point. So, a traditional sauna, you'd probably only go into, some of this is personal preference.

It might just be a few minutes or up to a max of maybe 15 or 20, if you're really used to it and love it a lot. Even that is on the far end, I think of how long you'd stay in there. An infrared sauna, you know, some people have asked me if there's a limit to how long you should stay in there.

I have yet to find one, but I can tell you I will stay in mine for up to an hour. It depends on the day though or what's going on. But there is some research.

You can find this on the NIH website, back to our research. But there is some research that using the infrared sauna a few times a week for 30 minutes a day, will actually result in less illness. So we'll just put colds in that category.

So they have found that people that utilize the infrared sauna on a somewhat regular basis, actually have less propensity to get illness throughout the, we'll say, winter time.

Sounds regenerative. It's like regenerative therapy as well, like with your cells and whatnot.

That's awesome. Yep, absolutely. Also, there's research that it is good for cardiovascular health.

So I would not run out and find all your patients who have had heart attacks and tell them that they should be in the sauna, which brings up a great point. If you were going to purchase an infrared sauna for commercial use, you would want to have a waiver or some acknowledgement where a person is saying, I don't have the following disorders or illnesses or diseases, I have not been told by a doctor not to utilize something like this, or maybe I checked with my doctor and they told me it was fine, just something. I think some of the companies that sell them commercially will have a form that you can use.

But again, that's a good check for your male practice and your business liability policy. But yeah, so the science behind that though is when you are exposed to the infrared rays and it's heating you up, your blood vessels are going to dilate. So they'll get like bigger, which in general is going to decrease your blood pressure.

However, homeostasis, the brain is going to say, wait a minute, I have to maintain this normal range of blood pressure that I want for this body. So it's going to make your heart start to beat harder, faster to keep your blood pressure at that homeostasis level. So it's not the same as going to actually exercise and work out, but you can reap some of the cardiovascular benefit that you would get from exercise by simply sitting in the sauna.

I like that.

Yeah. So if you have somebody who has like a physical reason as to why they can't exercise or it's difficult for them, this could be something that they incorporate into their routine to get that cardiovascular exercise to a certain extent. Like I said, it's not going to replace going out to run for 20 minutes or whatever.

But for people who might have that limitation, it's a really great thing to do to try to just give them another biohack, a different angle that they can have a positive impact on their cardiovascular health. Yeah.

Question. Well, two things. So would you say that infrared sauna or sauna in general, it's helping your body function similarly to when you have a virus and you've got a fever.

Your body naturally is raising the temperature to fight that off. So instead of naturally raising it, you're supplementing with whatever the sauna is helping your body fight off that you don't know exists.

I think the mechanism through which your body would raise your body temperature is going to be different than the mechanism by which it's getting raised when you're in the sauna. So I wouldn't say, like this actually comes up all the time. Should you even go in a sauna if you're sick?

The advice on that is to your comfort level, you can, but if you have a fever, you should not. So you wouldn't want to try to compound that temperature raising by also getting in a sauna according to the powers that be. And I would agree with that.

I mean, I think that you should let your body do what it wants to do, and maybe it doesn't want your body to get that hot, and you should just leave it alone and let it do its thing.

I know last year, I actually experienced a temperature I didn't think a body could get to. I had a fever of 105.6, and I was one of those, I guess you would consider maybe less educated in the realm where I thought, 104, your brain starts melting. Like your body is melting your brain, like you're on your deathbed.

And so when it kept climbing and it got to 105, I thought surely I was done. I was going into a coma, but I didn't. My mom showed up.

She was like cooling my body down. And eventually I woke up and was drenched in sweat. And I was like, okay, so your body can get that hot and you're okay.

So I think it's very interesting.

Do you know what it was or no?

It was Flu A.

Okay.

Yeah. Flu A and stress.

Like a side story.

Yeah. And then my other thing that I wanted to ask you as a provider is with the sauna, would you say like, if I'm going to go exercise, do I do sauna before? Or would I do sauna after or it's beneficial either way?

After.

After.

Okay. They actually make, I wish I had one of these, they make saunas that are big enough to do yoga in them. And like I said before, there's some chain of like exercise, gym things that have that built into that's part of their platform is like you exercise in a room with an infrared sauna.

So I would say either like during, if that's what you're doing, or definitely after. It's really good for recovery, I would say. And yes, something else they're good for.

So in the infrared sauna, the rays themselves are, like I said before, they have a different wavelength and there's a range in which those wavelengths fall. And there is what's called near infrared. And then there's far infrared.

So near infrared rays are the ones that are implicated with being good for your skin. I don't want to say that they prevent wrinkles or make you look like a 16-year-old again with the skin.

Reverse all the aging.

Yes. The near infrared rays are supposed to be more effective at helping your skin. The far infrared rays are supposed to be more effective at helping global body health, we'll call it.

That's cool.

Let's be real. I mean, that's why I bought one because I was looking for a fountain of youth. So I guess we'll find out when I get old if I found it or not.

Let us know.

We'll check in with everyone in 40 years. Perfect. Okay, cool.

So like I said, I do have an infrared sauna, but I do open it up to my patients too. They love it. Some of them have just gone in there because they had the day off from work and they just felt like they wanted to do something to treat themselves.

That's totally fine. So there is something about it that just feels like fun and restful, which is good for your mental health anyways, and like managing stress. So those are all really good things, which brings me to something else.

What do you do when you're in the sauna? My sauna has Bluetooth, which I don't know if that counts. Since like, aren't you kind of supposed to unplug and be like one with the heat, maybe like meditate when you're in there?

But no, you can have Bluetooth, listen to a book. Podcast, ChiroCast, get in the sauna. But this brings up a really cool point, and that would be layering biohacks.

So other things on our list that we're going to talk about include just stuff as simple as like meditating, journal, there's like music therapy that you can do and listening to certain like tones or songs or whatever.

Sound therapy, yeah, I've heard of that.

But like you can be in a sauna and you can do some of those things while you're in there to really try to like tap into whatever like restorative or regenerative or like de-stressing thing, like whatever that person's goal is. You can combine things with the infrared sauna to try to maximize your biohacking.

Like decompression, you mentioned decompression something earlier that you wear, could I do that?

No.

Okay.

Great question. So this brings up a very good point about infrared sauna. To be the most effective, the infrared sauna rays are supposed to like hit your skin directly, right?

So if you have this thing in your office, are people getting naked and going into it, right? So I have rules. I mean, I'm not in there when people get in them, but I think people respect it for the most part, but I guess I wouldn't know.

But I tell people to wear either like a bathing suit or if it's a woman who works out, like a sports bra is fine with shorts or just something like that. So you are supposed to expose as much skin as possible to get the most benefit. And so what I mentioned earlier, the compression boots, I mean, they're covering your legs the whole way down, so you wouldn't want to do that while you're in there.

Plus, they have to be plugged in, so the door would be propped open for the cords and then the heat is escaping and all the things.

Yeah.

So you don't want to stack compression, decompression or compression boots with infrared sauna. I would say that's a no. But you can do them sequentially, one before the other.

Cool. Okay.

Vice versa. Yeah, totally.

We're not dragging the adjustment table into the infrared sauna and doing all the things.

New business model, adjusting in an infrared sauna.

There you go.

That is hilarious. This is a great idea. I'm going to invent this now.

Okay. So here's the deal. The infrared sauna itself, like the purpose of being in the sauna is the exposure to the infrared rays.

So for example, I can walk out of my front porch right now, turn that thing on and get into it, even though it's probably the same temperature as it is outside, which is today approximately 65 degrees. I can sit in there, even though it's 65 degrees, and be getting benefit from being exposed to those infrared rays. So I would argue the goal of an infrared sauna is not strictly to get in there, get as hot as possible and sweat a whole bunch and be uncomfortable.

This is a question that comes up a lot from patients. And I love answering it, because some of that scares some of them. Like some of them think like, uh-oh, I'm going to get too hot.

I'm going to have a stroke or a heart attack. I better drink a gallon of water before I get in there and stuff like that. That does not have to be the case.

In fact, if I have someone in there for their first time, I kind of talk them through it. And I always tell them like, you can get out if you get too hot, prop the door open if you get too hot. I'll talk to them beforehand too, and then figure out like, are we going to have it heated up to like max capacity before they get here, or are we not going to do that because it is their first time.

So that being said, you can still get a health benefit from being in the sauna, even if you're not making yourself as hot as absolutely possible. I have sat in there before for 45 minutes and not broke a sweat at all.

It's the so it's the infrared. That's the most beneficial piece.

And yeah, I would say so.

OK.

Now, if you got hot and if you break a sweat, then we're stacking biohacking on top of that because then you are getting the benefit of like that sweat where people say, you know, you're releasing toxins and things like that.

Yeah.

So yeah. OK. How much do they cost?

It varies dramatically. It just depends who you buy it from, where you get it, what features it has, how big is it, all of that stuff. I mean, I've seen them on online retailers at $1500 to $2000 all the way up to the company I got mine from.

$10,000 plus. Mine was not $10,000. It was less than that, but it just depends.

It depends what you pick out. That's kind of what your initial investment is looking at. Around here, there's places that do infrared saunas.

That's what they have there. It's like a recovery place. Gosh, I don't even know how much it costs because I don't go to them anymore.

It might be like $40 to reserve it for an hour. That'll include your getting in and out time, drying off, getting dressed after, and going about your business. So, yeah, depending on the investment you make, and then if you're going to use it in your practice, what you decide to charge, how much you promote it and whatnot.

I mean, it can definitely be a moneymaker, generate income, and it's a conversation piece for sure. Mine is not open to the public, so the general public cannot come use my sauna, which I think my patients appreciate. But I would let them come with a friend, so I do have some people, and I've actually gotten patients that way.

They brought their friend and they hung out in there talking, and it was like networking for them or quality time. I do that with my friends. I'll be like, let's go in the sauna, and then they come right over.

Yeah, so it's like a community thing too, depending on how big it is and if you bring a friend.

Yeah. And you know what I just thought about? Since we talked about bringing the adjustment table in and stacking biohacking, what I've seen recently that's on the incline is salt room, salt therapy.

And now that I've got my salt lamp here, I was like, you could totally pair that, like, have a salt room and, like, built-in infrared in that room. So, I mean, just stacking biohackers.

Random side note, there are probably all of them, NFL football teams, they have custom built infrared saunas as part of their facilities. So it'll be like an entire room that is an infrared sauna for use for, like, the players. So that being said, though, I mean, it's to that extent that, like, even professional athletes and their organizations are using these and have them for use with, like, recovery and just obviously for their health and wellness of their athletes.

So this is not new. I do think infrared sauna is enjoying a Renaissance right now, but they've always been around. I just think maybe it probably goes up and down with how popular they are.

Right now, they're super popular, I would say. I mean, yeah, to the point where I was sitting in a sauna. My friends, this is what happened.

My friends were like, do you want to go to the sauna place? And I was like, what? It was like a Tuesday night.

Like, who's got time for that? Not me. And then that weekend, they were like, hey, we're going back to the sauna.

Do you want to come? And I was like, I guess. You know, you guys are going back already.

There must be something to this. So I went with them and we were probably in the sauna for like 15 minutes. And I was literally sitting there doing the mental math on.

I grabbed my phone, by the way, which is questionable if you should bring your phone in the sauna or not, but I did. I'm like trying to figure out how much they cost, divided by what this place charges you. And then if I bought one, how many times would I have to use it to make my money back?

I mean, I was in it for 20 minutes and was like, I have to have this at home. Granted, at that time, it was February. So it was like winter, very cold here.

And it felt awesome to just be in like this warm heat. So yes. Also, if you're going to get an Infrared Sauna, I would highly suggest going to like ChatGPT and typing in like Infrared Sauna appointment description, just to get like a really nice description of what you could post on your website or how to promote it because they have a way with words, obviously those things do.

And they will definitely come up with a description that will make everyone want to go inside and try it.

Shout out to AI, it is everything these days.

Yes, exactly. Yeah, so things to keep in mind, how much they cost, figure out ahead of time what you're going to charge, have a informed consent or waiver ready to roll. I would market it ahead of time before you even have it.

So you don't want to buy this thing and then be like, oh, now I'm going to think about getting people to want to use it. Like start promoting the benefits before you even have it, and maybe even to the point where you can pre-book and have a full schedule when it's ready. Also, when it gets delivered, at least mine came on these huge palettes.

It looked intimidating, but mine was, I did need like, there were three of us. You do need more than one person and sets of hands, but it was very simple to put together and not hard at all. One reason to check with your landlord, I did have to have an electrician come and change the outlet for me, so I got my electrical handled properly.

If you're renting your office space or if you're owning, you're going to have to figure that out to make sure that it's going to work right if you're putting it in your office. Sanitation, I provide towels. Obviously, I wash them.

I tell everyone they have to sit on a towel, and then I provide towels for them. I do recommend that people shower when they get home, but no one is showering. I don't provide showers.

But they do say if you break a sweat, you do want to go home and shower to rinse off whatever you just sweat out. Something to keep in mind if people ask what time of day they should come use it or whatever. Probably not on the way to work, but everybody's different.

Yeah.

Cool. Well, I think that's a good segue into another biohacking, which is the red light therapy, which as you're talking about it, red light therapy sounds very much like infrared. So I'm thinking maybe that's what that is.

Yeah. So remember, infrared is after the red, visible red light. Yes.

So it's just beyond. So like what we can sense with our eyes is like that visible spectrum, the little rainbow thing that you can picture. And so from what I understand, red light therapy is what would be considered red on that electromagnetic spectrum.

It just happens to be the visible red. And within that red piece of the spectrum, there's different wavelengths. It's like different shades of red if you want to think of it like that.

Okay.

And I think that they have just done other research and they have found that there's just cellular responses to these different energy sources effectively. I mean, a lot of people, I feel like we take light for granted. Like you just see light and it's just how we see things.

But light really is energy. And so it's harnessing the power of those particular wavelengths in this case for the red light therapy that happened to literally be the color red. Yeah.

So I don't know a ton about red light therapy. I do know at Parker Seminars this year, I bought one of those little wands for anti-aging.

Oh yeah, I have one of those.

And like hold it there. And it's funny, actually the light, it's got these a bunch of lights in the wand and they are different shades of red. But there are some that don't appear to admit anything at all.

And it's emitting infrared light from those ones that look like they're not on. Because you can't see infrared light.

Right. I have a mask that has just exactly what you described. But it also has blue.

Because there's something that's blue light therapy as well. So it's kind of like all working in unison.

Don't take this the wrong way. But from what I've read, blue is good for like acne.

Oh, okay. Well, that makes sense, because it was that mask that kind of looks like Iron Man, and it was made by Neutrogena. Not sponsored.

It's just something I've had for, I think, 10 years now. I don't even know if they sell them anymore. But it's like it's that white mask.

Yeah.

They're all over the place. Have you been on Instagram? Come on.

Mom gets kids on the bus, walks inside, puts her masks on, and like gets her tours done or whatever.

Oh, yeah. Okay.

I'll send you some links later.

Glasses in there. Yeah, I just hang out like on the bed. I think it's like 15 minutes and then it just kind of dims and go about my day.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's really funny. You've had it for that long. So to your point, like to me, red light therapy is like something newer that's also enjoying a new Renaissance.

But you've had that thing for 10 years. I mean, they're all over the place now. You like, I don't know, they're all over my Instagram.

I don't know about yours. I do secretly wish I had one, but I didn't want to spend the money. Instead, I have to sit on a couch at night holding this thing on my face and I have to move it every three minutes.

Someone send to me a mask.

No, this thing. So here's what I'm... Social media is powerful because it honestly could even be older than 10 years because it's starting to yellow.

The mask used to be all white. Now it's kind of yellow. It's old.

And I remember like I bought it at Walmart years and years and years ago. And you had to like, if you ran out of how many, I think you get 30 uses and it was like this little battery pack thing. You plug the mask in and once those 30 are done, you got to go buy another like battery pack thing that powers the mask.

And I think I've got like 11 left, so I don't use it as much as I guess you're supposed to. But I've not seen them. And like at the time, I think it was like 20 bucks at Walmart.

But like you said, now they're everywhere and they're super expensive. So it's like things come back around and social media pushes things forward. And it's just funny how that works.

Yeah, interesting. So I think what's important about red light is how close it is to your skin. That's a mask, like you're wearing it.

So I think you're probably good. But they do make different like panels. So like you can have a tabletop panel.

But like, I mean, I'm sure the manufacturer would tell you. But like, how close to that thing do you need to be? Do you know what I'm saying?

There's also the the sauna company for the one I have just came out with an infrared or a red light panel. And it's like full size stands on the floor and you would just stand in front of it. And I just like I don't how long do I have to stand there?

Do I have time to do that? And I do it in the sauna. There is is not incorporated into the sauna, which I find interesting.

I would want to learn more about that, because I think I actually read that infrared rays could interfere with the body absorbing the red light rays. I'm not sure. So stacking those two would be something to research for sure.

Yeah, I know I've seen at a gym I used to go to years again, everything is years ago, but there was, it was kind of like a stand up tanning bed, but it was red light therapy. And I think there was blue in there, but it had a vibration plate. So you stood in there for 20 minutes and you're on the vibration plate, but also the red light therapy.

So you're stacking these health benefits all in one, and you're knocking it out in a 20 minute session. And it's things you wouldn't think to pair. But you know what I've seen recently are these vibration plates.

They are everywhere. Every other ad as I'm scrolling is, here's one that you can get that's 30 bucks, and then followed by that one that's $700. So I think it's cool how all of the, I would say, what are they, holistic biohacking mechanisms are coming back around.

Yeah, the vibration plates, we had one in school, and they're really good for challenging the proprioceptive portion of your nervous system, for rehab and helping with like balance and other things like that. But I think from like a biohacking standpoint, obviously that's an application, but also they might be useful for improving lymphatic drainage, or just in lymphatic flow in general. I guess it could be draining, but just helping that flow in general.

So yeah, interesting. I can't stand on those things. They make me immediately motion sick.

So I would have to bow out of that one personally. Yes. But side note, I should be doing this more and learning more.

But supposedly there are exercises you can do with your eyes to help resolve, we'll say. Dare I say cure, but we'll say improve or resolve motion sickness. So there's a PT I know that I work with.

She's given me the exercises to do and of course, I didn't do them. I should definitely try it because it's pretty severe sometimes.

So I've not heard of that. The only thing I've ever seen that I thought was like insane were the glasses. It's the glasses that have like the water.

Do you have those?

No, I just saw those on Amazon or something or like Instagram or whatever, maybe a couple of weeks ago and I was like, I have to buy those glasses because we're going to try this out. So I'll report back and let everybody know how that went.

I'm so interested because I'm not always car sick but like in some vehicles I'm car sick and I'm like, I've only ever seen people that are car sick with those glasses and I'm like, I want to use them but I'm like, will I use them all the time? I don't know. So buy them, let me know if they work.

Yes, I will. I'll find someone to take me for a drive because I drive everywhere because I won't I don't usually get car sick if I drive but if I'm the passenger, game over.

Right. Well, get your glasses and then do a vibration plate.

I would have to find some around here that has one. We'll see. We'll see.

Okay, we mentioned you brought this up before but the compression boots. So, yes. So what are they?

They're basically these giant sleeves that you put them on your legs, you slide your leg. They're like pants except without the pelvis part. They're just the legs.

They make snow pants, except they're not filled with stuffing. They're just like air chambers. It does wrap around your feet, but then it's hooked up to a pump and electricity.

It's like getting your blood pressure taken on your legs, except not exactly. So the pump fills the chambers with air, as if just like getting your blood pressure taken, the cough thing. I should know the name of that.

Yeah, cough. And yeah, it just causes a compressive effect in your legs. But like usually these units are hooked up to something with a program where it'll start at the bottom.

So it'll start at your feet and then just like work its way up your leg and then start over. So it'll go in different patterns and it'll just run through a cycle. And I think they recommend for an hour or it can run for up to an hour.

But yeah, you would just sit there with these giant boots on your legs, letting the compression work while you're sitting there. Have you ever seen these before?

The only thing I can think of is when my mom had hysterectomy after her surgery, she had these big white things on her legs. And I just remember sitting in that room and getting annoyed at the noise, because I'm guessing it's the air. It's filling up and it's like, yeah, and then it's releasing.

And at the time I was young, I didn't know what in the world it was, but that's what it sounds like. I'm guessing it's very similar.

Yeah, I'm sure it is obviously a similar concept for sure. I'm sure the ones on a hospital are different. I wonder if they even use them still anymore.

But anyways, so personal experience, I own these as well. And so one of the reasons that I decided to set back from full-time practice is just it was beating on my body. But one of the issues I was having problems with were like my legs.

They just felt like lead at the end of every day. It was bad. And so I got diagnosed with venous insufficiency and I paid a whole bunch of money for the doctor to tell me to buy compression socks on Amazon.

So I was like, thanks, thanks for that. The issue I have are in the deep veins. So there's like procedures you can have done when it's on the surface.

They're superficial. That would be what's associated with if it gets really bad, just like visual, like when you see people that have varicosities on their legs.

What does that mean? Like swelling of the veins on the legs?

Yes. But mine aren't the ones you can see. It's like deep.

And they're like, yeah, there's nothing we can do. I was like, oh, okay, thanks. I guess I'll just sit all day.

So honestly, getting off my feet has helped some, but when I got COVID, it got really bad again, like really severe. But so, you know, I've just kind of dealt with it. But so earlier this year, I had the opportunity to try the compression boots.

And actually when I was at Parker Seminars earlier this year, you know, we were on our feet the entire day. I had flown. There was a lot going on, long days.

And my feet, my legs were killing me at the end of each day. And my feet were really swollen. So I know that's not unique to me, that it's going to happen to a lot of people if you're standing all day.

But I think it was harder for me to recover because of what's going on. I mean, I would go back to my room at night and lay on the bed with my legs up on the wall because that's how bad it was. And it just still like would not help by the next day.

So anyways, that Friday, I noticed there was a company that had them there that were like demoing and there was a chair open. So I ran over and I was like, I want to try these. So I hopped in the chair and they only did like 15 minutes.

But I literally felt like a brand new person when those 15 minutes were up. It was phenomenal. My shoes slipped right on my feet.

I am not kidding. Were not swollen anymore. And I felt like my legs felt better than they had felt in like years.

So I was like, and I'll be buying these for my house. So I did. I did end up buying them.

And just still like phenomenal improvement and like massive improvement in quality of life. And so it's just sad to me that back to the research, because I looked for it, I could not find any research that said that these would be helpful for someone with venous insufficiency. And so someone should do that study.

First of all, secondly, like for home use, so people could actually like have these at their house if they want to, or in like a chiropractic office, if you're going to have a little recovery thing, or you have patients suffering from something like that, as long as they've been cleared by medical, they don't have a DVT, nothing else suspicious or bad or is going on. This could be an option for some of these people to get massive gains in their quality of life. I mean, I do crossfit, and I had to stop working out or severely limit what I could do during a workout because of...

I mean, I would be running and trip over my own feet because I could not pick my feet up off the ground. So that prevented me from exercising. It was not good.

And when people stop moving, health begins to suffer. So I think that this is a great addition if somebody is looking for something to add to the practice that could help people that have some of these situations going on. Or even if you're just having the conversation with them, and then that person decides to buy them for themselves and have them at home.

So they're like compression boots. That's what you would look up on the Internet. So it's just the sequential, like, squeezing of it effectively.

It just helps improve blood flow is what it comes down to.

I was thinking like blood clot preventative for folks that have pre-existing conditions. I feel like that could be a good supplement to their regimen.

Yeah. I don't know if there's any research for that. But if you, I mean, I do think someone should be clear to make sure they don't have that because that could be causing swelling in someone's lower extremity.

So it should be rolled out in as long as it is. And I don't see why someone probably couldn't look into doing something like this for themselves.

Now, is it only legs or do they have like, is there a full body compression or their arm sleeves? Like, can I just look like the marshmallow man?

So they do have arm sleeves, but I think you would hook them up like one, like separately. So you would do arms and then maybe you would do legs after, but they're not plugged in at the same time going at the same time. At least not that I'm aware.

There is also like a pelvis. I mean, they look like underwear. So you step into them and it does its thing.

I actually thought about asking, one of my friends recently had a hip replacement. She's a young person. She has like a bone disorder situation and had to have a hip replacement.

I mean, she's doing great, but I wondered after her surgery if this was something that would benefit her if I had like the pelvis attachment, but I didn't and now I'm a jerk because I didn't ask her. Anyways, I mean, I figured if it was something they wanted her to do, they would have told her, you know what I mean? So I'm not trying to, like the idea of like while someone is still following up with their orthopedic person after a joint replacement, I'm not trying to interfere with that plan of care when they're already doing other things.

So, but yeah, no, that's a great question. There are other different attachments for other body parts.

That's cool. I would have never guessed that there was like a pelvic attachment, but I mean, blood's flowing everywhere. So yeah, I mean, go check it out.

Internet.

Heck yeah.

Totally. Yeah. Okay.

And then the last thing I want to touch on is cold plunge. Have you done this before?

I have a cold plunge system upstairs. It's not one of those real fancy like bathtub ones. It's one that I can't think of.

Arctic ice, I believe is what it is. Again, not sponsored, but it's blow up. It's kind of like air mattress material, but you blow it up, you fill it up and it has a valve on it.

And then I've got these ice packs that are no joke, like 12 by 12, you fill them up, put them in the freezer, and then you stick them in there. And it's supposed to keep it cold for a long time. So I am a cold plunger, but I had a, I guess it was a teaching, no, learning opportunity because in my head, I'm like, oh, this can't be bad.

You know, like 40 something degree water. Yeah, let's just jump right in. I had the shock of my life.

And I'm like, yeah, for five minutes, right? Because people are like, oh, I did a minute. And I'm like, a minute?

What's that going to do? And I'm like, I'm going to go in there for five. I wasn't in there for 30 seconds.

I don't even think it was 15. I was like, nope, I'm going to have to start slow. But yeah, myself, I have one.

And then my neighbor, two doors down, he's got one of the industrial, built into his home, deep bathtub cold plunges that has this huge robotic mechanism to change the temperatures and all kinds of things. But I think it's awesome. My kids, they love it.

They think it's just fun to jump in cold water, but don't know if it's benefiting the way that it's advertised, but it can't hurt.

Yeah. You're not going to get hypothermia from being in there for a minute or five, whatever.

Right. Right.

This is interesting. Maybe someone with neuropathy would want to be careful with that. Or elderly, they just have a different sense of sensing temperature.

Sometimes it's reduced. And people with circulatory issues possibly want to be careful. Someone with Raynaud's or some of those autoimmune diseases that impact like blood flow or whatever.

But yeah, for the general person, I don't know that there's any specific contraindications beyond like infection, obvious stuff like that. I'm going to say I can't do it. That might not be accurate.

Like if I had to, I would. If I had access to one, I would also. For people who are interested, they could just start by having a really cold shower or a bath, just to start getting acclimated before they invest however many dollars in like a cold plunge tub.

Yeah. But yeah, that's a slow way to start. But I think the key, like the idea is that you're simulating the sympathetic nervous system and like extremely so that then the body and the brain have to regulate it back down.

And I think it's that up and down of the stimulation of the sympathetic nervous system that helps prime that sympathetic and okay, we'll say it's helping prime your autonomic nervous system to be able to cope with the stresses that you're going to encounter on a daily basis. So that's interesting because a lot of people would say like, oh, well, like society is stressful. We're already are all sympathetic driven.

Maybe that's like a generality. But when you're sympathetic driven, maybe you don't want to do it more. But I think the idea behind the cold plunge is that it's like a little bit more than that.

And so that the body then has a reaction to learn how to get out of that state basically. So you're exercising your autonomic nervous system when you're doing the cold plunge.

It just it makes me think of like fight or flight because the first time I did it and, you know, side note, my chiropractor is the one that was like, have you ever done it? He and he did say he was like, start off small, like in the shower. He's like, you ever noticed that if the cold water hits you in the face first and then goes elsewhere, it's not as much of a shock as if your back is turned and somebody just kind of turns the water to cold, your body kind of just seizes up.

But he was the one that told me about it. And that's when I started off. And then he's like, you'll get an energy boost, like 30 minutes after that cold, you know, the cold water hits you.

And he wasn't wrong. Like he was like, do it in the morning, you know, before your day and just kind of watch what happens. And I was like, this is really cool because you don't get those immediate effects while you're in the cold shower.

But later on, you're like, okay, there is, you know, some pep in my step. Maybe it was placebo, who knows, but I'm going to do it.

Also, who cares? That I always say that to patients, who cares?

Right.

Not a big deal that you got into a cold bath or whatever, and then got a positive benefit from it. Like if you gave your life savings away to someone, and then that made you feel better, I might say that's not a good idea. But yeah, I don't know what's wrong with the placebo effect, as long as there was no detriment and you didn't have a huge investment there.

But there is research in science behind the cold plunge, so I don't think that it's a placebo.

So, yeah, no, and I mean, it helps with breath work. Like I learned how to regulate my breathing because you have that erratic breathing that hits you at first and your instinct is to get out of it. Your body is like, no, get out of the situation, your cortisol, but the more you do it and the more you control your breathing, the longer you can stay in it.

And I personally think it does help with those cortisol levels because yes, everybody is stressed or stressors, even when you don't think you're in a stressful situation, I mean, the lights being too bright can be a stressor on your body. And so regulating those cortisol levels with something as simple as getting any cold shower for a minute or two, definitely going to do it. Whether it's helping or people think it's not helping, I'm going to do it regardless.

Yeah, definitely. I don't know if I am. I don't like being, I'm basically like Goldie Glocks.

I don't like being too hot or too cold. I can handle the sauna, but I usually don't go in it in the summer because I'm already too hot. Cold is not something I have ventured into.

But I got to say, I did go in my friend's pool like Labor Day weekend. It was like 68 degrees and I stayed in there for a while and it felt good. So that's my cold plunge experience.

But yeah, it's that fighter, those fighter flight responses are governed by your autonomic nervous system. So that's sort of the deal there for sure. Awesome.

Yeah, we're just biohacking our way to the fountain of youth, I think. And yeah, reaching life a little easier.

Yeah, here's hoping, right? Yes, we'll have another podcast in 40 years where we check in on how our biohacking habits have served us over time.

Absolutely. We'll call back.

All right, cool. Well, Danielle, thanks for joining me today. Everyone else, thanks for listening.

This has been your ChiroCast. And again, if you have any comments or questions or things you want to send to us, just send us an email at chirocast.chirotouch.com. Talk later.

Bye, everybody.

Thank you for joining us on this episode of ChiroCast, Insights for Modern Chiropractors, brought to you by ChiroTouch, hosted by Dr. Stephanie Brown and Danielle Javines. Produced by Debbi Brooks, editing from Matthew Dodge. Our theme song, House Five, is from Scott W.

Brooks. If you enjoyed today's show, don't forget to like, link and subscribe. We appreciate your support and we'll catch you next time.

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